Large class participation: Lea Katsanis

Can you tell me about the course design?

John Bentley: Welcome to our podcast. I'm just speaking with Dr. Lea Katsanis. Hi, Lea. How are you?

Lea Katsanis: I'm fine. How are you?

John Bentley I'm well, thank you.

Lea Katsanis: Good.

John Bentley: Just to set the context Lea I'm going to describe what our conversation's going to be about and you can tell us more about some of the innovation, some of the interesting things you're doing with your teaching. So, I'm speaking with Dr. Lea Katsanis, who is Professor, Department of Marketing in the John Molson School of Business at Concordia University. Professor Katsanis has designed a course that uses easily recognizable products, strategically selected to form the basis of case study analysis during class. Students are prompted to carry out individual reflection, followed by a full class discussion which allows for the capture of ideas, reactions and more in-depth analysis.

This strategic approach has produced wider and more significant student engagement, including efforts related to keeping on top of course reading assignments, experiential based problem solving and the creation of individual and group study materials. Professor Katsanis focuses less on the delivery of content and more on student generated solutions and critical thinking. So, we got into a conversation, Lea around student engagement. It's when we were talking about transitioning from the 13-weeks to 12-week semester. And then we got into a conversation at length about the things that you're doing in your teaching, and I thought, this is really, really interesting. It's fascinating. You're using mini case studies and questions. Is that right?

Lea Katsanis: Yes, that's correct.

John Bentley: Can you explain and tell us more about your thoughts on the course, design for this course, this is Marketing 486, it's Product Strategy and Innovation. You begin with a product related to the lecture but you don't reveal the product and the design. But then you have a series of questions around it, which is the subject of that particular product. So that class it's designed to introduce the subject of the day.

Lea Katsanis Exactly.

John Bentley: OK. Now, just a bit more context. Can you tell me more about, let's say for example, the course number, the course title and frequency with which you teach the course and such?

Lea Katsanis: It’s Mark 486, Product Strategy and Innovation. I'm teaching both fall and winter. There are only two sections per academic year, and I teach both of them.

John Bentley: OK. And how many students do you have in those two sections?

Lea Katsanis: There are an average of 60 students in a class.

John Bentley: OK, so 60 each semester. So, you're teaching 120 students, that's significant, that's a big number. And so, can you tell me more about the course? What's the course about and can you sort of give us a general picture?

Lea Katsanis: Yeah, the course is about the process of developing and launching new products. So firstly, we discuss how to get from an idea to a full-blown product. Secondly, what considerations go into that process? And finally, what steps are needed to get from the idea to the actual product launch? Of course, there are many challenges a company will face during that process. And at that point, I cover the recommendations for best practices to meet those challenges. In a nutshell, that's what the course is about.

What did you change after the pandemic to engage students? You use Oreo cookies?

John Bentley: OK. And so, during COVID, that time, we were online, students were online, faculty were online. We transitioned back into the classroom, back to in-person. So, when we transition back to in-person, can you tell me a little bit about what changed? I mean, how did your approach to the course change coming back into the classroom and did you bring in things that you learned from Zoom, for example, did things change?

Lea Katsanis: Absolutely. I knew I would never teach the same way after I taught on Zoom for many reasons. To begin with, I was teaching too much material. I also discovered that students don't really need or want lengthy lectures. They want the important concepts presented in a concise way and following that, be provided with a general guided discussion forum to help them learn how to think independently and also reach reasoned conclusions about how to use those concepts.

One comment I heard was that students felt generally there was too much material on their course Moodle pages. After that, I began to curate my Moodle pages very carefully because, ironically, students wanted less information rather than more. I also organize the page differently now to make it easier for students to find what they need. I make all the course materials available to students on the very first day of class. I think teaching is moved from providing information to assimilating information and creating opportunities for students to develop insights. Most of us are doing that in the classroom now, but I think our focus has changed and I believe that should be the creating of those aha moments. How can I use relevant examples to make students appreciate the material for example. How can I help them learn on their own? How can I get everybody to participate? How do I make the material so compelling that students realize they can't find those insights on the web? I try to create an environment so that students understand if they don't come to class, they're missing the experience. And as a marketer I will say that today, people in general are seeking positive experiences when they choose to engage. If I'm able to create an experience that makes students want to come to class, then I've created an environment where they're coming for the experience of learning. They're not coming because they have to learn the material. Many tell me that they're doing that on their own. They're coming for the experience of the learning and it's really exciting to them. That's what they're looking for. And my philosophy has always been to teach the way students find it the easiest to learn. And I'm very open with them about being flexible about my teaching methods. If they feel something isn't working, I'll change it. Sometimes if I feel students aren't paying attention, I'll stop in the middle of a lecture or discussion and I'll just say, I can see you're not with me today. Tell me what's going on and we talk about it. What matters to me is what we're doing here together. And making sure everyone is getting something out of what we're doing. I've learned a lot from speaking to my students so openly because they feel comfortable talking to me and I really like it that way.

John Bentley: What were some of the big changes that you did?

Lea Katsanis: So firstly, I changed the structure of my classes. Now my class is divided into four parts. The first part is a mini case that introduces whatever subject we're talking about that day. The second part is a short lecture of about 15 to 30 minutes that introduces the key concepts. The third part is when students present their work and each student group presents every week. There are twelve groups in the class, and the work is divided amongst them. Finally, the fourth part is the student’s personal interaction with me. I meet with the students in their groups. I do that because they seem to come to campus less and less and I want to be available when it's convenient for them. I'll give you an example of what I do in the course using my first lecture. I take a fun product, Oreo cookies. And as an ice breaker, for the first class I get a huge box of Oreo cookies in individual packages, and everybody gets one. Instead of asking students just to introduce themselves by name, I ask them what's your favorite Oreo cookie and why? They all have their favorite flavours and I write everyone's choices on the blackboard. Then we talk about Oreos marketing strategy. How does one keep a 115 year old brand exciting? Because new product development isn't just about the new to the world product. Approximately 80% of new product development is for existing brands and creating innovation on those brands. Oreo is a perfect example because there are so many different flavours and so many different partnerships with other companies. So, it introduces every single facet of new product development that takes place. Then I ask a series of questions. For example, what sorts of innovative features would you introduce if you were the new product development manager for Oreo? Students are anxious to share their ideas because most of them love Oreo, and it's an easy product to talk about. During the first class I do very little talking. I'm mostly listening and taking notes on the blackboard. Most students participate and are shooting their hands up, and that takes most of the class time. After I finish with Oreo, I present the mini lecture where I tie everything together that they've talked about and consolidate their ideas on the blackboard. I now ask them to identify what they believe are the most important ideas from all of the ideas on the board. Finally, we review based on what they came up with and how it then matches with new product development best practices and that's the first lecture. I normally have about 75 to 80% participation.

John Bentley: You're getting that that level of high engagement from your students.

Lea Katsanis: Well, everybody has heard of Oreos, and most people have tasted them and love them. Because of the nature of the brand, it happens to be the perfect example of continuous product innovation. In order to continue the high level of engagement throughout the semester, I prepare and present a mini case each week. I identify a new product that's not on the market or an existing one that has an interesting profile and structure the course so that the new product or scenario I choose relates to the specific topic of that week. I've taught the course often enough now that I have a mini case bank, and I update that every academic year just to keep it fresh. I then open the class with the mini case and give them the scenario on one slide. I ask them two or three pre-prepared questions and make them sit quietly to answer them. There's no group interaction or talking for the first 10 minutes. They are not allowed to confer with their colleagues. I want to give them time to think on their own without being influenced by anyone else. I know it sounds obvious, of course we all need time to think but in a classroom environment where things are moving quickly, one may not always give students the time they need to think. I don't worry if some students finish in 5-minutes and others go to the 10 minute mark. Once the 10 minutes is up, I have them volunteer to answer the questions. I put the answers on the board and then we start a discussion. I'll ask students, what do you think is the most important idea on the board and why? What would you want to leave off this list and why? Again, it's getting them thinking about the ideas in the class without having it been introduced to in the lecture and letting them come up with their own thoughts. And some of those will be good ones and some are not going to be so good and I'm OK with that. After that I let the class answer the questions generated from their colleagues. For example, what do you think about that? Do you agree with that? Why or why not? Now, students start talking and get into the habit of participating and building their comfort level over the 12-week semester. The whole idea is to get them used to participating. 60 students is a large class, and if one doesn't build the muscle and the habit to engage, it becomes more difficult over time. For me, the fundamental is giving students the time and space to think before they speak, and that also covers the folks who oftentimes will not raise their hands. If you give them time to think they're going to be much more likely to raise their hands and have confidence in what they're saying. I find that women, people of color and those who are either shy or very anxious about being in the classroom will participate if you give them both a time and the ability to build their confidence. I believe it creates a much more inclusive classroom.

One of the things my students have told me in emails and comments in class is that I make everyone feel included. People have different processing times and if one provides the space for thinking in a relaxed way, one gets a lot more engagement. Let's go back for a minute to what I do in class. Once they finish the mini case, we go to the lecture because the topic of the mini case leads immediately into the lecture for that day. And throughout that 15-minute lecture, I will reference the mini case and in addition I will introduce concepts that were part of both the case study and reading they were assigned that week so that they understand the connection among the mini case, the major case, and the reading. Through each step in the class ideas and concepts are being reinforced the whole way from their own thinking with the mini case to best practices thinking introduced through the lecture and the reading as well as the application of all of that to the case assigned that week. Students always have questions and I let them interrupt me anytime they want. When we get to the cases and the readings in week three, I do not assume all students have done the work ahead of time. So, to ensure that they have some exposure to the material and can contribute in class each student group is assigned one question from either the case or the reading, and is required to present their work in class every week. A group will be assigned either a case or reading, and I alternate them. So, if a group had a case one week, they get a reading the next week, and so on. This group work is done outside of class, so that class time is reserved for maximum interaction in the classroom. As I mentioned before, there are 12 groups, so I've written up 12 questions each week. Each group has to answer a question, and the questions are designed to reinforce the reading material and to create opportunities to apply the concepts from the reading to the case. Each group has to present their questions every week and it must be a different person from the group who presents. The same people are not allowed to present each week. I would like the students to remember key takeaways from the articles and cases. For example, how did the reading relate to the mini case? How did the reading relate to the lecture and how does the reading relate to the case assignment? All the class elements are always based around a key concept, so that the student can see that the mini case, the lecture and the reading have synergy. They can then take this key concept and apply it to a real situation. Their next assignment is the group project where they have to create a new product idea and for that idea they must develop a new product plan and show how they'll execute it. I have a specific project outline that they have to follow that reinforces everything they're learning in the class through the cases and the lectures. All the class materials, both the lectures and the readings are integrated into the project, and they're graded on how well they synthesize the course material into their project.

John Bentley: So, in terms of time, how, how often, how many hours a week and generally what time of the day are you teaching? Is it evenings or daytime?

Lea Katsanis: So it's once a week for three hours. Class is an afternoon class from 11:45am to 2:30pm.

John Bentley: OK. So that's a tough time because the students are, they're probably, you know, it's after lunch and they're probably a little bit groggy I would think. That's tough for interaction.

Lea Katsanis: Believe it or not, most of them haven't even eaten yet and are on their first or second coffee of the day.

John Bentley: OK, so I understand the first class there, so you have the Oreo case and you're setting the tone for the course. The fact that as students, they're going to be engaging in discourse and sharing ideas. And so, there's a lot of discourse involved, which is great. And the students appreciate the fact that you use an example that's accessible. That's it's a common example. Everyone is aware of it. It's a sort of a universal that they can all pin their ideas to?

Lea Katsanis: Yes, it's a very universal brand, even for international students. Oreos are in almost every country in the world. Students may not have tasted one, but they know what an Oreo is, and many actually speak to the special flavors that are available in their countries. It's really a very inclusive brand.

John Bentley: OK. So that's something that gets them right away from the beginning. You know, it's something they can relate to. You set up the model for all your subsequent classes with that example, that model. You introduce a case, a concept of a case, and you have a series of questions that are associated with that case. And then you ask the students to begin to do a little bit of silent reflection on the questions that you've asked them in relation to the initial presentation of the case. And then the students reflect, and they jot down some of their ideas on paper?

Lea Katsanis: That's correct.

John Bentley: OK. And then as a group together, you ask them all to respond to the sort of things that they've said. So how does the larger group see the ideas of all the individual students? How do you see that together? Do you get them down to the whiteboard? How do you share those ideas and how are they viewed?

Lea Katsanis: I write everything on the blackboard as they contribute their ideas to the discussion.

John Bentley: You ask the students basically to call out after they've done their reflection and so you're collecting all those ideas on the whiteboard?

Lea Katsanis: Yes. Anything they say whether it's right or wrong, is written on the giant blackboard in my classroom and we sort out the details in our discussion after everybody's made their contributions.

John Bentley: And then as a group now you have a list and as a complete group you've shared the list and you sort of say, I'd like you to respond to some of the things that you've seen so they can call out around the room based on their reactions to what they're seeing on the whiteboard.

Lea Katsanis: Yes, students will raise their hands if they want to speak, and if I see that the same people are answering, I'll say I'd really like to hear from those of you who haven't spoken up yet. I find that as students see how the class operates and after some of them have presented, they become more likely to participate. That's why all students take turns presenting their weekly articles and cases to make them feel comfortable in class and to get used to speaking in groups. I have found that when you make students feel welcome and included, they want to come to class. I don't take attendance in class as I feel that students are adults and can make their own decisions about what they want to do and I have 75 to 80% of students coming each week without having to do that.

John Bentley: That's amazing.

Lea Katsanis: I really surprised myself to be quite honest. My feeling is that if you create an engaging environment, students want to come to class. I also tell my students that most of the work happens in the class and if they miss class, they will likely find the exams and assignments are very challenging. I have expectations for them, and I really make it clear what those are. I want to create a sense of obligation, not just for themselves but as part of a group because the class only works if everyone participates. My philosophy is that our collective responsibility as a class is that everybody does their work and no one expects others to carry all the work, and that includes me. I am not shy about telling students that I have expectations, and their colleagues have expectations. It's up to all of us to make the class an exciting place to be.

John Bentley: OK. So, you're basically eliciting their views and opinions and reaction to the product or the model. You're tapping into that, you're helping them share their ideas. There's a lot of intrinsic motivation going on. This sort of thinking, I want to be here, I have a responsibility because I'm responsible to myself, I'm responsible to my own learning in this course. This experience that I'm engaged in for the next three hours is going to help me with my own learning, so therefore I need to act. So that's really important and that's working?

Lea Katsanis: I agree and this is because material in the course is not rote learning. It's the assimilation of the material over the course of the semester. If students come to class each week, they find the learning of the material is easier because each week builds on the next week, and so on. It's designed to be very interconnected and synergistic, and each week builds on the previous week. At the beginning of every class, I'll provide a brief review of what we did last week, and then I'll talk about the current week and how things will fit together. At the end of the class I'll then recap everything that was discussed that day. Whether it's the beginning, whether it's the end, the entire class is designed so everything is connected and I help students to find those connections.

John Bentley: So you do a precap and a recap every class and now the next stage in the class structure with the experience that the students have, they've now reflected on each other's responses based on what they've seen on the board. You've had them dialogue for a little while around that. You've listened to it and you're also getting down those responses to the private reflections, the individual reflections. Then the next stage is you're going to stop and then you go into a 50-minute lecture.

Lea Katsanis: That's right, lectures are approximately 15 to 30-minutes, depending on the week. Sometimes they're a little shorter, sometimes longer. It really depends on the subject.

And you use case studies as well? You mentioned the Apple Watch and Coke with coffee?

John Bentley: So you do a 15 to 20-minute lecture and you'll lecture on the particular case in relation to the case that you've sort of introduced at the beginning.

Lea Katsanis: Yes. For example, in week three, we discussed the elements of new product success and then we discuss as a group why some succeed and some fail. The case in the reading that week specifically covers that topic, and the case is Apple Watch, which discusses why the initial launch of the Apple Watch was a failure and how Apple recovered from that to be successful with the brand? After that, we talked about how to have successful new product launches and there are currently two schools of thought on that subject. Cooper’s Stage-Gate and Verganti’s Innovation of Meaning. For two weeks, we talk about Stage-Gate and then for the next two weeks we talk about Innovation of Meaning. I discuss how both approaches are complementary and how one can integrate different elements of each to take advantage of the synergy between them. After that, the class turns to the end users of the products and their role in the new product development process. I hope it's clear how the course progresses and that each week builds on the next one. Once students understand what goes into a new product, success or failure, and what approaches are available to them, the next stage is the tools that result from these approaches and how they're applied to the end users. We discuss how we engage users in the development process and why they are an important part of that process.

John Bentley: OK. And that's what's in essence in your 15 to 20-minute lecture you discuss, and as you're doing the lecture you're referring to the readings, you're referring to the case so you've integrated everything. The lecture really is repeating and reiterating to support the students learning.

Lea Katsanis: That's it. All course elements are linked to the lecture to reinforce the concepts and how to apply them.

John Bentley: So once you've done the 15 to 20-minutes of lecturing, and focusing on the readings and reflections, what's the next stage? What happens next with the students? Do they get into groups?

Lea Katsanis: Not exactly. After the short lecture, each group presents the answer to their question of the week. We start with the reading and the students who had the reading questions will present the answers to those questions. Then the students who had the case questions will present their answers to the case questions and then I developed a series of synthesis questions relating to the case. But if we go back to week 3 again, the mini case is Coke with Coffee, it was not a success initially but became one. That ties into my lecture on the key success factors for new products. In addition, that week's reading on why new products fail ties into the mini case and the lecture, and then the Apple Watch case covers all the factors of new product success and failure. For example, when we discuss the Apple case, I ask students what they would have done differently at the time of launch had they been Apple? What elements of the product development process would they have changed? What factors for success do you think they might have done that make a difference and why? Then we recap all that and I ask them for their key takeaways from the material. Those are written on the blackboard, and I then supplement them with a slide that also provides material they may not have thought of. Students are required to post their answers to the cases and readings on the Moodle Forum and those answers become their study guide for the semester and form the basis for their class participation grade. There are 12 responses per week and they cover the reading and case material. All my lecture notes and the mini case are posted to Moodle as well. I tell students it's more important to listen and absorb than to try to write everything down because all the material is posted to Moodle anyway. I encourage them to think about the overarching concept rather than the details, because they don't need to remember everything. I want them to remember the big picture, the key concepts, and how to apply them.

John Bentley:

OK, so you've got six groups of students who are working on the case study and six on the reading. And when they get into their groups and they respond to the questions in relation to the reading or the case study, are they responding to questions that you've given them already?

Lea Katsanis: Yes, that's right.

John Bentley: OK, so you give them a series of prompts through questions and so as a group they will all say, well, [as] a particular student, what did you think? And then they respond to those questions. And they're responsible as a group or as an individual?

Lea Katsanis: As a group they are required to post their answers each week because they have to present each week. Each group has a group coordinator that's responsible for posting on the Moodle forum.

John Bentley: And they have to collate everything, and then they post it to Moodle. And then you give the group, all of the individuals, the group, the same grade?

Lea Katsanis: Well, if all the students participated, then all their names must appear on the assignment for that week. If someone hasn't contributed that week, then their name shouldn't appear.

John Bentley: And then they can take it up with their group?

Lea Katsanis: That's right. Most groups won't leave someone's name off if it with a one-time occurrence, but if it's happening repeatedly, they will leave that person's name off future assignments.

John Bentley: OK. And then it's up to that person to talk to the group saying, hey, you know, we've got to address this?

Lea Katsanis: Exactly. They have to talk to their group members to work it out. But if there's something a group can't resolve after trying, I'm always available and happy to provide consultation and advice.

John Bentley: You're there because you want to be there, that's their sort of attitude?

Lea Katsanis: It's true and given how much class attendance dropped off after we came back to campus, I'm genuinely amazed at how many students really come to class. I see my role as facilitating their learning by creating an environment where students take an active role in what happens during class and I believe students are responding to that. My students and I share the responsibility for what I hope makes class an exciting place to be.

John Bentley: I'm going to be writing this up in the context of active learning because I think it's really interesting that you've captured all the elements of that particular pedagogy. You've really embodied active learning in its purest form here.

Lea Katsanis: Thank you so much. I'm really pleased to hear that.

John Bentley: Well, that's the model that we try and talk about with faculty as a way of changing their teaching. They could look at what you're doing and they can replicate it and try some of these practices. Pulling in active learning strategies, the nature of the engagement changes among students. And because they're really synthesizing and they're getting to practice in class some of those techniques, they're committing it not just to memory, it's higher order thinking. They're really using induction, deduction and it's having a long term cognitive impact [with] higher order thinking and their ability to retain information, really understand. They're really engaging in critical thinking. So that's why I think the model that you're using, it's transferable, it's generalizable to other disciplines, maybe not exactly the way where you're doing it, but portions of it so it's going to be interesting to have others look at what you're doing, seeing what they can adopt [as] certain sort of philosophies and practices. 

How do you run your assessments

John Bentley: I like the way you segment the class into discrete blocks, so just to understand the last bit. So the students are in groups, they present, respond to questions, they upload those to Moodle. And then the next part of the class, do you kind of tie it all up and tie it all together?

Lea Katsanis: Yes, I do. I tie it together by asking questions so that the students do it for themselves. So I summarize the broad areas we covered in that day's class and then I'll ask them what they believe are the key takeaways from the day's activities. For example, I’ll ask them about connections they observed between what the article recommended and what happened in the case for the day. In Week 3, Coke with Coffee and Apple, I'll ask them to look for similarities and differences between the two cases and what larger lessons can be learned from those experiences. All that information is recorded on the blackboard. Once students have participated, I then present a slide which contains the takeaways for the day. Every class ends with a takeaway slide and a recap of the key concepts.

John Bentley: And that's like the accumulative knowledge?

Lea Katsanis: That's exactly what it is.

John Bentley: And that last slide, do you create that on the fly based on what the students say?

Lea Katsanis: I have that one pre-done but the students feedback from the blackboard is added to that.

John Bentley: OK. So the students can also get another chance to respond and share their views as the final takeaway of the day, which complements the final slide. And then as a final portion of the class, that's where you do the individual consultation? You'll be encouraging them to stay so they can dialogue with you and ask questions and follow up?

Lea Katsanis: Absolutely. I encourage them to stay and I tell them to use the time to start on their assignment for the following week. I also encourage them to discuss their work with me, particularly their progress on the final project. There are certain sections of the project that can be difficult to conceptualize, and I want them to have plenty of time to discuss those with me. Many stay behind for these consultations.

John Bentley: And in terms of assessment, talking about the project, what are your assessments for the course? How are they laid out? You have a project?

Lea Katsanis: The project has a specific rubric, and each section is allocated a certain number of points. Some sections I've weighted more heavily than others because some sections are more important. For example, I don't give many points for target market identification because it's easy to do, but I will give substantial points for market research, social media analysis and the new product concept. In addition, I want to see how well students have integrated the course material to their projects. And for me, this is a key criterion in every section of the paper and part of the rubric.

In fact, one specific section of the paper is an assessment of what they did in terms of the process of coming up with the new product. Since 80% of new products fail, I'm not grading them on whether or not I think their product is a success or failure. I want them to assess their own process and ask them what do you think you did well? Knowing what you know now, what would you have done differently if you could start all over again? And what things do you think you missed? I want students to reflect on the experience itself and identify what they learned and how they could improve.

John Bentley: And that project they do together in groups?

Lea Katsanis: Yes, there are twelve groups of five students, and each group has its own project.

John Bentley: And do they have project themes to help get them going? Do they just come up with it themselves?

Lea Katsanis: They just have to come up with their own product idea themselves.

John Bentley: And then cumulatively through the semester, the different components of the project, does that result in a final grade for the course?

Lea Katsanis: Yes, because students need to integrate the course learnings into each component of the project. However, I do not grade the individual components such as the initial proposal and their draft questionnaire, largely because I want them to feel that the proposal is their opportunity to both make and learn from their mistakes and as well to get my feedback so they may improve upon their work. I provide feedback on the proposal and the draft questionnaire, around 72 hours because it's a long project and I want them to have enough time to complete it. Another part of the project is the Envisioning Diagram Workshop, and this takes up one entire class period. Each group must participate. This is a tool that is part of the Innovation of Meaning concept they are introduced to in the course. Each group presents their new product idea using this tool to gain feedback from their peers and the professor. This allows the students to put the concept into action and actually live the experience so they can see how it works in practice.

This also helps them improve on their product design as part of Verganti’s concept, Criticism from Within. This assignment is not graded separately, but as part of the final project. The final component of the project is that each group presents their project to the class during the last two weeks of the semester. Each group is assigned what I call a mirror group. Mirror group is responsible for formulating questions about the other group’s project. Each group must provide a one-page summary of their project so that the mirror group can read it ahead of time and then develop a list of questions they want to ask them. Each person in the mirror group has to come up with a question for the group.

John Bentley: And the last two weeks when they do their presentations, they just do them to the mirror group? They don't do them to the whole class?

Lea Katsanis: The groups present to the whole class, but the mirror group is responsible for developing the questions.

John Bentley: But present to the whole class?

Lea Katsanis: Absolutely. They presented the whole class and if we have time, I allow the class to ask additional questions. Of course, I allocate time for my own questions and commentary.

John Bentley: And it's kind of a pre-contrived as it were that the mirror group has got the questions ready, and they present and then they respond to those preset questions that the mirror group has conceived of or has presented. And so, for total assessment, the group project is worth how much?

Lea Katsanis: So, the paper’s worth 30% and the project presentation is 20%.There's a midterm essay exam based on the mini case that I write.

John Bentley: So that essay, what's that based on?

Lea Katsanis: The essay is based on all the classroom material, lectures, readings, and cases.It's given during Week 9, and it's non comprehensive.

John Bentley: So, the essays based on what you've done in class so far?

Lea Katsanis: That's right. And I write a new mini case each semester for the exam.

John Bentley: And they will reflect on it. They'll try and resolve the case with a certain response?

Lea Katsanis: Yes, students get preset questions. They have 10 minutes to read the case. It's normally a bit of page and a half long. I give them two primary essay questions that have several sections to answer, and then I give them four short answer questions, approximately two paragraphs or so are required.

Blended learning versus in-person

John Bentley: This is a really interesting model, so I think I understand the structure of the course and the experience that as you've described it for the students every week. It's an active learning approach that you're using. Now, just to talk about the blended approach and your Zoom experience. The blended approach is where faculty will meet with students one week and then alternate week by week so it's like it's alternating. Some faculty front load, they say I'm going to meet the students for the first three weeks face to face, and then the last part of the course, they're going to be doing work project work independently, but the faculty member is always there, available to meet them. Has the blended approach been something you've considered, or do you just find you know,  I'm perfectly happy meeting every week on campus. This works best.

Lea Katsanis: I thought about using a blended approach because I did enjoy some aspects of the Zoom classroom and I learned a lot from the experience. However, I personally prefer to meet in person every week on campus. Of course, I'm only speaking for myself, as I'm sure there are other professors who are very successful with a blended approach. I want to watch the students and their reaction to the material. I observe their body language and read the room so I can adjust the material and my approach based on how they're responding. I also walk the room so I can approach students where they are so that we can look at each other directly.

John Bentley: Lea, thank you so much for this. It's really, really exciting what you're doing and you're teaching. It's amazing. As soon as I heard you describe this level of engagement, I thought, oh, I must speak to you. I must have a conversation so we can capture this and share with others. I'm delighted to have this chance to talk to you today.

Lea Katsanis: I'm so delighted that you reached out. I'm very honoured to be recognized for what I'm doing in the classroom, and it was such a pleasure spending this time with you.

John Bentley: Thanks so much Lea. It's great. I'm really looking forward to writing this up and sharing it with the Concordia community and others beyond and learning more about your teaching.

Lea Katsanis: Wonderful. Thank you very much.

John Bentley: Thanks Lea. Take care.